How To Make Money With A Cow-calf Operation

redoak

Posted 11/20/2015 18:16 (#4909265)
Subject: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

SW Ontario

Nothing nicer than seeing a good cow-calf operation but how many do you need or price of calves too make a living. Most guys i see in Ontario only have 10-50 beef cows outdoorswede

Posted 11/20/2015 18:23 (#4909291 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

NW MN

My wife (and I) wonder the same thing. Trying to grow but it is SLOW. I am making NO money. It is all being reinvested in infrastructure right now feelnrite

Posted 11/20/2015 18:27 (#4909298 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

northwest tennessee

You are not supposed to make any. That is what the feeder guys do and if you are a cow calf man you are not real bright anyway so peck sheet with the chickens and get by.

JDSWMO

Posted 11/20/2015 18:38 (#4909318 - in reply to #4909298)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

feelnrite - 11/20/2015 18:27

You are not supposed to make any. That is what the feeder guys do and if you are a cow calf man you are not real bright anyway so peck sheet with the chickens and get by.

Couldn't have said it any better.

garvo

Posted 11/20/2015 18:56 (#4909354 - in reply to #4909298)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

western iowa,by Denison

Talked to a cowman and his Wife at the sale barn In Dunlap Iowa today and they were really happy with the prices they received-and asked how I did last year and what I would change-they also said they were makin a few changes
The cattle today were 25-$75 higher then yesterday
we talked a little bit -and we both came away refreshed with positive attitudes
I guess if you do not have a positive attitude theres probably not enough money to ever get the glass 1/2 full
mccoyranch

Posted 11/20/2015 19:00 (#4909366 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

North Central Kansas

Tough to answer and somewhat location specific. I have always said that the cow business and farming are different. I can pick out those 'Farmers that have cows' by the way they talk. The mindset and concepts behind it don't correlate. In farming you put one more dollar in your crop if it returns you a a dollar and a penny. That won't work with the cow business. With that being said you can't starve a profit in them either.
I guess it's run a cow as cheaply as possible while still producing a good calf and breeding back. Keep your cows grazing as much as possible. I can't find room in the budget for feeding equipment. I've never put out an acre of Alfalfa. Let her harvest her own feed because her time is worth nothing, she has alot of it, and she is built to do this on her own. You'll probably get alot of opinions on this one. oldskool

Posted 11/20/2015 19:02 (#4909369 - in reply to #4909291)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Been there, feel for you. Started out with 40hd, the first few years were a lot of manual labor. Filled creep feeders by hand. Used 5 gallon pails to fill bunks made of used stockade boards. Snubbed cow to a post and chained a panel against her to the shed wall to pull a calf. Used a 16ft bumper pull trailer to haul 7cows at a time. Worked out pretty well starting around '03. Prices went up and there was a drought, got over a dollar for calves and was forced to cull some of the herd,(makes a guy get rid of the man eaters).

If you enjoy having cows or have children at an age to learn responsibility from a bottle calf I would stick with em. But if you're miserable with them and they just seem like a chore, you will never see a profit from your labor.

Don't feel like you're alone, want to ask the same question about how a guy makes money farming a quarter. Seems like it's just a money vacuum every time I run over it with a piece of equipment.

feelnrite

Posted 11/20/2015 19:07 (#4909381 - in reply to #4909354)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

northwest tennessee

Maybe I need to start drinking garvo. You are the one that beeetches nonstop about not making money. I am one of those dogs that after a while will come out from under the porch and raise heck. I have about got my gut full of all the money spending and on and on and not making a dime you talk all the time.

oldtiger

Posted 11/20/2015 19:08 (#4909384 - in reply to #4909354)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

NEMO

that's the thing, even though the calf market has taken a beating lately, the dollars received is worlds better than in years past. Sadly, I guess, a lot of cow people have done it and will continue to do it out of shear joy of being around the cows, it never has been a big dollars deal and they gladly take the dollars they get and wander off like a bunch of sheep, happy, content, and ready to do it all over again. As long as the fence can still be patched, the grass grows, and the creek doesn't go dry, there will always be those small groups of calves coming to town Feeder

Posted 11/20/2015 19:09 (#4909387 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

South-East South Dakota

Post of the year type right there feelnrite. play in the dirt

Posted 11/20/2015 19:29 (#4909446 - in reply to #4909354)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

south central IOWA

You must have been too busy bidding up my calves to talk to me garvo?

I didn't see you around or else I would've said hi and my hired man was in a toot to get back home before the snow got bad.

Calves sold better than in my nightmare last night so that's a plus.

coolhand

Posted 11/20/2015 19:31 (#4909454 - in reply to #4909366)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Second to last sentence, love it. Made me laugh. It really sums it up though. It's all about the cheapest feed to keep them going and rebreeding. Even a guy with 5 head can make a profit off them if the grazing is cheap, they're not far from home, and he only spends 4-5 hours a month checking and messing with them.

I know that doesn't hold water with most smaller herds, he will spend a lot more time with them because he enjoys being around them. If that's what he's got time for and they become a hobby cause he's making $1-2 an hour messing with them or even losing money on them, well that's fine too in my thinking.

John e.c.MI

Posted 11/20/2015 19:54 (#4909518 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Croswell, Michigan

Granted, I don't read every post every day on here but I always thought Garvo has been pretty open and transparent about his operation. I don't think I would have the nerve to post that I had fats contracted under the market or locked in corn too high. He has answered questions openly about costs for his building projects, that are very impressive I might add.

This is a pretty good forum, I hate to see guys that contribute openly get dumped on. They way I take it is that Gary has a handle on his costs to feed cattle and if he can't make money with high priced feeders, why fill up? The pie can only be split so many ways.

ntexcotton

Posted 11/20/2015 19:55 (#4909521 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

North Central Texas

Here a ranch is made of pride of the name and family that name is from. Our spot is made up of family that is doctors, lawyers, oil men, and ranchers. It's surviving the 5th generation of that combination and will continue for a long time to come. My generation on the rancher side have a minimum of a master's in animal science, range or soils. We are not stupid by any means. Our purpose is to produce high quality calves set to hit the feed yard when they leave the ranch. We sell by semi loads not by the head. The same feeders bid for our cattle each year as quality is the most important thing we have to offer to sell our product. Lots of folks want to play the game but to be a cattleman takes work and longevity with tradition. This outfit will turn a profit - good times or bad. Galaxie64

Posted 11/20/2015 20:00 (#4909534 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

WY, OK

When it is all said and done taking long term averages you are probably going to be in the $100-$300/hd profit so do the math from there as to how many you need for a living. Last few years if you didn't buy any $3K+ cows and were already stocked you were probably over $600/hd, guys that went out and bought a bunch of $3K+ the last 18 months are going to be hurting with $1200 calves. The $4K+ cows that were bought last year may never bring in a profit unless they went to pure bred seedstock. This all assumes land is completely paid for.

Blackbaldie

Posted 11/20/2015 20:16 (#4909579 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

West Central Indiana

I'm in a group, 6 neighboring operations, 400 cows this year 500 next year. We shipped our calves on Wed. 2 loads steers 2 loads heifers, sold them Labor Day on Superior. What makes it work is we all have the same goals. We use the same bulls (Nichols) same health and feeding program with the goal of producing uniform calves. We share a lot of the work and buy some inputs together. We work hard to keep things fair and stay friends. Sure we have some tense moments but we realize we are much better together than separate. saltcreek

Posted 11/20/2015 20:16 (#4909580 - in reply to #4909366)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

central kansas reno county

The more they can feed themselves the better I am. I would much rather haul or pump water than to feed them hay everyday all winter long. billiet330

Posted 11/20/2015 20:27 (#4909598 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

feelnrite - 11/20/2015 19:07

X2. Couldn't have said it better than that!!!

GregChuckles

Posted 11/20/2015 20:50 (#4909647 - in reply to #4909598)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

As a young guy that started out on my own from nothing, I don't really make anything. Think about it, everything I've had to buy to even be a barebones operation. I've kept reinvesting to make improvements from the little profits I've gained on the calves as well as off the farm job. After the good years the last 2, I've made some good improvements but it's not nearly as much as I've liked. But I like to do it, I'm addicted to it, and even though I'm not putting any money in the bank I sure as hell like doing it better than my day job. As long as I gain equity at the end of the year I'm satisfied. Thing that is scary with this downfall and uncertainty in thee markets, I just hope it doesn't get to the point where I start draining that equity. And I'm conservative, and haven't gotten hog wild, but I'm big enough now and handle a lot of dollars that it could go downhill in a hurry, and the job doesn't pay enough to keep up with those costs along with trying to live on the bare minimum, which I have and will continue to do so. That doesn't bother me, I don't need to keep up with the Jones, I'm a man of principle and I will keep plugging away, I would just be nice to make a good honest hardworking living in the business to reward one for all the obstacles one has to overcome. 656

Posted 11/20/2015 21:19 (#4909705 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

indiana

Feelnrite why don't you feed your own calves? Then you could build barns and pour concrete and make all of the big money like garvo mccoyranch

Posted 11/20/2015 21:26 (#4909729 - in reply to #4909521)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

North Central Kansas

I need to know how to build a ranch in one generation, mine. I didn't marry into anything, so that's out. jc1206

Posted 11/20/2015 21:41 (#4909777 - in reply to #4909705)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

northern IL

656 - 11/20/2015 21:19

Feelnrite why don't you feed your own calves? Then you could build barns and pour concrete and make all of the big money like garvo

+1
Or you could send them up north to my neighbors feedlot to be custom fed. He told me the other day he had room for 80 head this winter . he does a very good job of feeding and he's only 15 miles from a packer. Then you can walk in the feeders shoes to see how they fit before you buy them.

Edited by jc1206 11/20/2015 21:48

oldtiger

Posted 11/20/2015 21:41 (#4909778 - in reply to #4909518)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

NEMO

unfortunately, there are guys on here that are bound and determined to gang up on others. It's interesting if you follow all the forums that they all have their own set of regular posters. On the politics and marketing forums, guys really let there emotions show and are often just mean. The crops forum seems pretty bland most of the time, guys bicker about seed brands, but nothing major. Machinery tends to be the best one for guys just sharing ideas, with the occasional color war just for fun. Stock sometimes has a meaner tone to it, and sometimes guys quit posting for a while, but usually come back. Just like in real life, some people just don't like each other, and a forum like this ends up with occasional bomb throwers that can hit and run. Hope everybody just keeps posting, like life, have to often sort through lots of crap to learn a few things Farmerkuk

Posted 11/20/2015 21:45 (#4909786 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Wyobraska

feelnrite - 11/20/2015 18:07

Cheers!

School Of Hard Knock

Posted 11/20/2015 21:47 (#4909791 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

just a tish NE of central ND

Id make a he77 of a lot more money if I didn't have 7 months of winter where I have to feed them hay........... Ben D, N CA

Posted 11/20/2015 21:53 (#4909804 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

I know a lot of guys that run 100-300 head, as a side job. Most of them work for someone else or have a steady job of some sort. Some farm.

Cheap feed, whether it be rented grass, stubble grazing, or paid for land is the key to turning a profit.

povertypoint

Posted 11/20/2015 21:55 (#4909809 - in reply to #4909778)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

SE SD

++++++ Thanks. Old tiger
Good, bad or ugly, all the posts and posters are a good read.
Even if you have to read between the lines.

Seems when the markets turn, most get pretty edgey.
This too shall pass :)

Edited by povertypoint 11/20/2015 21:57

buckmaster

Posted 11/20/2015 21:56 (#4909810 - in reply to #4909791)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

I don't know about that hay is darn cheep I can't graze for the price of hay. I am going to bring mine all home and start feeding cheep hay this next week.

PeteMN

Posted 11/20/2015 22:39 (#4909876 - in reply to #4909810)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

E.Central MN

Same here, have a lot of bales that aren't worth hauling to the sales barn....one of the joys of haying meadows that seem to always be too wet to be making hay in. Baled some cornstalks for bedding, too. Some people don't get any satisfaction out of a small cow/calf operation, some of us do. We won't be getting rich, but we always eat well. brads by laws

Posted 11/21/2015 05:51 (#4910021 - in reply to #4909318)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

JDSWMO - 11/20/2015 18:38

feelnrite - 11/20/2015 18:27

You are not supposed to make any. That is what the feeder guys do and if you are a cow calf man you are not real bright anyway so peck sheet with the chickens and get by.

Couldn't have said it any better.

Just curious where you guys think the responsibility lies ? Do you guys feel your above using risk management ? Are you the one segment of Ag that should get a free pass on managing your own risk ?
My thoughts are you can either manage that risk............or peck chicken sheet. Your call. The board did after all give you plenty of opportunities to lock in another record profit year..

JDSWMO

Posted 11/21/2015 07:03 (#4910107 - in reply to #4910021)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

brads by laws - 11/21/2015 05:51

Just curious where you guys think the responsibility lies ?
Do you guys feel your above using risk management ? Are you the one segment of Ag that should get a free pass on managing your own risk ?

85-90% WAS caused by losing COOL.

As far as risk management, it has been ask all fall and never answered so maybe you can Brad.
How is a guy that can't fill pots, supposed to "protect" his calves?

jfqc

Posted 11/21/2015 07:23 (#4910134 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: low operating costs

se montana

We've never made more profit than we did this calender year and last. Even with falling prices in the past 6 months, we are still are higher profits than we've ever been.

Ask this question in a few more years of plunging markets, and only the survivors will be left to answer it.

The key here is operating for as little as possible. Its all about weather (severity of winter) and hay prices up here to make it all work.

2390

Posted 11/21/2015 09:29 (#4910373 - in reply to #4910134)
Subject: RE: low operating costs

saskatchewan

Jealousy is such a ugly thing in a man.Most of these garvo haters are failures in real life,so it makes themselves feel good about themselves when they can pick on someone online that is successful and run them and there operation down.If those of you that are so obviously jealous of garvo,would take that energy and apply it to actually work instead of riding around in your new duallys with your cowboy hats on with the attitude look at me you might be successful to.It's a dog eat dog world out there and if you can't make money with calves at these prices,theirs someone right around the corner that will buy you out and show you how it's done! mccoyranch

Posted 11/21/2015 09:51 (#4910429 - in reply to #4909265)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

North Central Kansas

Another point I'd like to make on this topic. I've had a cow herd for 15 years. By God's grace I've been able to keep them together. Looking back over the years, with the exception of the last two, my cattle income has been very consistent. I've had alot of crops that were half what they ought to be, even zero's. I've never had half a weaning weight or calf crop. Calves may come in lighter or heavier from year to year, but the cows have been dependable income for me. That's another reason I wonder why someone would want crops only?? But I guess I enjoy my cows and some people may not. brads by laws

Posted 11/21/2015 09:59 (#4910440 - in reply to #4910107)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

I assumed JD that you weren't that guy. After all .........those guys who couldn't fill pots were a thorn in your side. They did it more as a hobby and didn't react to market signals. I would think you could utilize marketing tools that they're unable to , do to lack of size. Not looking to pick a fight. Just seems like some are more willing to blame everyone else for their lack of risk management. Ag talk would be better served with talk about how to manage that risk instead of playing the blame game.

Edited by brads by laws 11/21/2015 10:00

JDSWMO

Posted 11/21/2015 11:29 (#4910595 - in reply to #4910440)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

brads by laws - 11/21/2015 09:59

I guess that means you can't answer the question?

brads by laws

Posted 11/21/2015 12:43 (#4910711 - in reply to #4910595)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Well I was talking to you. Is that your story...........you can't meet the specs to fill one contract ? If so your right. Not much you can do to easily manage risk. If you can meet at least one contract.......then your doing nothing to manage risk was your decision. Matters not to me. Maybe make up your mind........are you worried about those small producers or are they part of your problem. JDSWMO

Posted 11/21/2015 13:12 (#4910765 - in reply to #4910711)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Do you have a clue how many cows a guy needs to run before he can fill a contract?

Even if a guy can sell load lots how does that help when you can only make a profit once or twice in ten years?

I'm not "worried" about anyone in the cattle business big or small.

How are you protecting your calves?

Now is your chance to show us peons how to do it but it seems like your just tryin to do your bi-annual kick a cowman thing.

brads by laws

Posted 11/21/2015 14:04 (#4910869 - in reply to #4910765)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Did I say I didn't lose any money on cattle? If I did............I lied. Use the board all the time so yes I'm very much aware. Speaking of lies.............profit only once or twice in ten years.............look who's lying. I'm starting to get it. The market owes you a profit........regardless. Pointing out that marketing was in your court is attacking the cowman ? Nothing left to discuss........have a good day. JDSWMO

Posted 11/21/2015 18:18 (#4911277 - in reply to #4910869)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Ag talk would be better served with talk about how to manage that risk instead of playing the blame game

You haven't had any discussion on managing risk today, all you've done here is mock and belittle me.

billiet330

Posted 11/21/2015 19:15 (#4911395 - in reply to #4910373)
Subject: RE: low operating costs

2390 - 11/21/2015 09:29.
It's a dog eat dog world out there and if you can't make money with calves at these prices,theirs someone right around the corner that will buy you out and show you how it's done!

Isn't Garbo the one always talking about losing money at everything??

brads by laws

Posted 11/21/2015 19:45 (#4911479 - in reply to #4911277)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

Sorry if I came across that way. I honestly thought you probably could use the board. Sounds like you not quite there and no...... how big or little of an operator you are means nothing to me. I don't idolize large producers. Your very right...........I don't have the answers for those in between size producers. I have my hands full trying to manage my own risk. I was wrong for thinking I know anything about you profitability or lack of it the last ten years. Good luck going forward. 3furrow

Posted 11/21/2015 20:10 (#4911527 - in reply to #4909381)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

suburb of Ontario`s Middle east

I would tell anyone how I make money. They be doin it and puttin me outta business. JDSWMO

Posted 11/21/2015 20:49 (#4911616 - in reply to #4911479)
Subject: RE: Cow-calf guys how do you make money?

brads by laws - 11/21/2015 19:45

Holy crap Brad you sound human (as human as a cattle feeder can***).

Good luck to you as well, I think we're all going to need more luck than skill for a few years.